Version 4.01
(Last Updated: 24 February 2000 by Dave Hill
Minor additions: 26 February 2000 by OGLO)
Includes original material written and copyrighted by David B. O'Donnell, Michael Kobeski, I. Marc Carlson, and Dave Hill with suggestions by Nancy Bryant, Ellen Ross, Alan J. Pitts, Marianne Bolender, and a host of others.
3.1 What is BELIEF-L?
3.2 What is BELIEF-L not?
3.3 What sorts of people are on BELIEF-L?
3.4 What would an atheist get from this List?
3.5 What is expected of me? What can I expect?
3.6 What is a belief? An opinion? A fact?
3.7 How do I get people to talk about what I want?
3.8 How come people are jumping all over me?
3.9 Why has everyone already made up their minds?
3.10 But what if I think they're wrong?
3.11 What should I do when i get really angry?
3.12 Who are those List Managers, and what do they do?
3.13 Jane, stop this crazy thing!
3.14 Is there some sort of Who's Who? of the people here?
3.15 Did somebody say "Web Page"?
3.16 What is "ELF-BILE"? What is "EBC"?
3.17 What is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything?
3.18 Why does everyone get messages before me? Why do some answers come before the original message?
3.19 How can I get people really angry?
3.20 Why is this FAQ so long?
4 GENERAL NETIQUETTE AND MECHANICS
4.1 Quoting
4.2 Formatting
4.3 Emphasis
4.4 Humor and Emoticons
4.5 Gender-Neutral language
4.6 Acronyms
4.7 Signing your work
4.8 Setting your options
4.9 Some hints for AOL users
5.1 Cross-posting and copyright
5.2 Privacy, Security and the Law
5.3 Nothing's written in stone
5.4 BELIEF-L Fair Usage policy and Copyright stuff
Welcome to BELIEF-L, the Personal Ideologies Discussion List. If you have any problems with the List, you should contact the following people by e-mail:
| List Owner | David O'Donnell (a.k.a. OGLO, or O Glorious List Owner) |
atropos@fates.org |
| List Manager | Kelley Leverich | k.m.leverich@juno.com |
| List Manager | Dave Hill | davehill47@earthlink.net |
All the above can be conveniently contacted by sending mail to:
though, of course, if the problem is that the destinyinternet.com server is not responding, that won't go very far.
As OGLO is not always available, please contact one of the List Managers first with any problems (see 3.12). If you have a problem with one of the List Managers, feel free to contact another manager or OGLO for help. If you have a problem with OGLO, tough; it's his list.
This FAQ is stored at:
You can also get this FAQ via e-mail by sending a message (no subject) to belief-l-faq@fates.org.
(up)
There are three rules:
If these rules aren't acceptible to you, this List is probably not for you. The List Management believes strongly that free expression of opinions is the best way to encourage constructive discourse. The rules are intended solely to allow such free expression for all members.
Notes:
These measures, however, are extremes that have rarely been invoked over the history of BELIEF-L. More often, the List Managers simply work behind the scenes to smooth ruffled feathers and explain to people what Rules 1 and 2 mean. Nevertheless, the decisions of the List Managers (or, over them, the List Owner) are final.
As one of the List Managers once said, "What the 'rules' are is an attempt to legislate politeness/civility, insofar as politeness/civility advances the free discourse of personal ideologies and beliefs ... The problem is, ... that it's damned difficult to legislate both freedom and politeness. The more you tighten your grip on what can (and cannot) be said, and how it may (or may not) be said, both the more you stifle freedom and the more you get folks jumping up and down and shouting 'Billy said a naughty word!' The more you loosen your grasp, on the other hand, the easier you make it for the trolls -- both the evil kind and the thoughtless kind -- to run rampant, breaking the china and drowning out conversation with their yammering."
There are other "rules" below in the FAQ, but they are extensions of the above principles. As one list member put it, "The FAQ isn't a Code of Hammurabi, as much as it is a Ten Commandments. It's not a strict statement of how you will act lest punishment be meted out, but rather guidelines for behavior that sometimes people may not always be up to observing." The List Management prefers to deal with offenses in as flexible and ad hoc a fashion as possible, using the above rules as the rule of thumb. Some people may find that overly vague, and others may use it as an excuse to "push the envelope," but it still seems the best way to operate. When in doubt, ask the List Management.
(up)
BELIEF-L is a semi-moderated mailing list. It is currently operated from Dave O'Donnell's personal server at destinyinternet.com. (See the legalese at the end of the FAQ for all the standard disclaimers.)
The list was created in June, 1989, in response to the forthcoming demise of the religion conference on UMNEWS, an early mailing list manager run at the University of Maine. For some years it ran on the list server at Brown University, until it moved to AOL's machine in late 1995. In early 2000, OGLO moved it onto his own destinyinternet.com server.
Briefly put, BELIEF-L is a forum where people share their ideas about "life, the universe and everything." It is a free-form conference for discussion, debate and discourse on beliefs, specifically, those beliefs held on a personal level. Topics for the List can range from abstract -- "What is 'Good'?" "What happens after death?" "Is there a deity?" -- to the pragmatic. Sports, Politics, Racism, Economic Policy, Child-rearing, Television and so forth, all find their way onto the List. Approaches to topics range from the intellectual to the gut-feeling.
This list is designed to be open to members of all religious and political faiths or non-faiths; there is no official discrimination here, be it based on religion, race, country of origin or residence, species, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental handicaps, etc. BELIEF-L likes to think of itself as a friendly community.
Part of that community is that members do get to know each other after a time. This is reflected in requests for personal advice (sort of "beliefs-in-action") and in miscellaneous humorous banter. If you are looking for a list that is completely serious, this is the wrong place. On the other hand, if you are looking for a list that is just a gossipy chat-line, this is the wrong place, too.
The best way to see what BELIEF-L is like is to sit in on it for a while. After a week, you'll have a pretty good idea of the spread of topics, personalities, and tone. You can chime in before that, if you just cannot restrain yourself, but, like barging into a strange culture without learning the taboos and social graces, you might find yourself in the stewpot before you know it.
*** OFFICIAL WARNING ***
The primary purpose of BELIEF-L is the free discussion of personal ideologies. Use of the list for any purpose other than this requires that the permission from a minimum of the List Owner, and preferably the List Owner and the List Management. Failure to secure permission constitutes a misuse of the list and may result in your immediate explusion and banning from the list as well as any other action the List Management sees fit to take.
Note: Some of the topics discussed on BELIEF-L may be inappropriate for young children. You, the reader, are responsible for what you read; BELIEF-L does not censor articles and in this respect is to be considered a data service provider, not a content-monitor.
(up)
BELIEF-L is not many things. It is first and foremost not a forum for proselytization.
proselytize: to induce someone to convert to one's faith; to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause." [Webster's Ninth New Collegiate]
We are here primarily to share our beliefs, in the hope that by doing so we will learn more about our own beliefs and those of others. For some, there is even the hope that others might have answers to vexing questions. Much of the sharing takes the form of discussion, which verges (heh) on argument at times. But while it's acceptable to assert and defend one's own position, if you're here to recruit others into joining "your side" (no matter how noble), you're in the wrong place.
(up)
BELIEF-L is a pretty diverse collection of individuals. A number of folks hold that to apply labels is to oversimplify to the point of error. Nonetheless, some general groupings can be mentioned, solely for the purpose of noting the diversity here.
The specifics of religions vary, but we have or have had Christian (mainstream Protestant, fundamentalist, Catholic), Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, and various stripes of Pagan positions reasonably represented, as well as a wide array of agnostics and atheists and others who who can't (or won't) classify their religious faith as one thing or another. Members/adherents of other religions have come along from time to time.
As regards politics, the professed beliefs run the political spectrum from libertarian to conservative (economic and/or social) to liberal to radical, as well as up and down several other multi-dimensional spectra.
Though most of the folks here were born and raised in the US (which hardly means they're all the same at any rate), we do get participants from Europe, Latin America, and elsewhere.
(up)
Just because the List is about "beliefs" doesn't mean that "disbelief" isn't a valid concept here. Indeed, an atheist will get much the same thing a theist will get: a place to thrash out your ideology and thoughts that is relatively free from pressure to conform.
As well, "atheism" is refers only to religion. Many other ideological systems (from politics to computer operating systems) are discussed here, too.
(up)
When you sign up to BELIEF-L, you agree to abide by its rules. If you disagree, you are free to unsubscribe. Within that context, the following should be looked at as guidelines. "Rules Lawyers" should review Section 2 of this document.
It is expected you will treat everyone, and their beliefs, with the same respect you expect for yourself and yours. That doesn't mean you have to agree with what others say, just that you respect their right to say it, at least here.
Within the bounds of the above, expect that your beliefs will be reviewed, discussed, dissected, and even (occasionally, in good spirits) poked fun at. You may return the favor, with the same caveats.
Do not expect to find a UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED, OFFICIAL, ABSOLUTE TRUTH -- only opinion and belief. Expect that nobody will believe you hold the True Answers to Life, the Universe and Everything (see Section 3.17). Nobody cares how certain you are in your faith -- the cold, hard fact is that you aren't the only holder of strong beliefs.
(up)
The general consensus (for the purpose of this FAQ) as to what these are:
A Belief is defined as a "feeling that something is real or true," or "something that is accepted as true" by a person.
An Opinion is a belief or judgment that is held firmly but without actual proof of its truth; a view held as probable.
A Fact is something that can be proven (as far as anything can be said to be proven) to be true.
(Note that because something cannot be disproven does not make it a fact. You cannot disprove that green penguins are sitting on my shoulder, dictating this, but that doesn't prove there are.)
In all cases, the burden of proof as to something asserted as a fact is on the person making the assertion. If you don't have documentation (or reasoning) to back up your assertion, it is no crime, but don't be surprised if folks downgrade your "fact" to an "opinion." There's nothing wrong with that, and many think that some of the biggest Questions can only be answered through leaps of faith into the unprovable.
(up)
The best way is to bring it up. The most successful way to start a new "thread" is to bring up an issue that you feel strongly about (a tie-in to current events is often helpful), and describe your beliefs about the issue. Choose a subject line that reflects what you are talking about.
Chances are, of course, that any particular Big Topic has already been brought up several times, including last week right before you joined. That doesn't mean you shouldn't bring that topic up again, but don't be surprised if nobody leaps to their feet at your brave new insight into the problem of Evil, abortion, gun control, economic policy, the (un)reality of God, etc.
Nobody around here wants to talk about the same thing all the time. If you are only interested in a single topic of conversation, you might want to look for a more specialized List.
(up)
This gets divided into two areas: folks getting harassed over "breaking the rules" and folks getting harassed over their opinions.
In the first case, there are a number of people who cherish this environment so much that they tend to pounce on folks who break the rules. Usually, brand-new folks on the List are (and should be) cut some amount of slack, and people will let them know if they are getting out of bounds. (Don't take it personally -- if folks weren't interested in what you had to say, they wouldn't go to the bother.) On the other end of the scale, old-timers (seemingly defined as anyone who's been here over six months) often get cut some slack, too, as their long-term willingness to play by the rules is evident.
If you feel that folks are treating you unfairly and are nit-picking what you say and how you say it, take a careful look at your actions and see if there might be a reason: Communication and civility are two-way streets. If you still think you are in the right, or don't understand why you are being set upon, contact the List Management. They might be able to explain it to you, or, if they agree with you, talk with the harassing parties.
The List Management asks that you ask for List Manager attention off-list, so as to avoid further inflaming the situation and getting everyone into a finger-pointing, side-taking snit.
In the case where you feel that you are being ganged up on solely because of your opinions -- well, that's how it is. The general rules of engagement make it bad form for too many people to take one side of a discussion against a single person (and, indeed, that might be enough to get others to take a stand with that person, just on general principles), but, as mentioned above, there's no rule that says everybody, or even anybody, has to agree with you.
As one List member put it, "This ain't no 'sunshine and lollipops' group of people you've found. These people (by and large) tell you what and how they feel on any given subject."
If you feel that a discussion on a particular topic has gotten out of hand or that you can't carry it on with so many people, either choose the person you want to talk to and just answer those posts, or drop the subject for moment. Remember, ending the discussion does not mean you "lose," nor does it mean you agree the other side is "right."
(up)
Of course other folks have made up their minds about these issues, just as you have, and the best you are going to manage is to get one or two of them think about their stance, and what you've said. If they choose not to believe you, that's too bad. Continuing to preach about it will only make you out to be an annoyance.
(up)
See Section 3.6 about distinguishing between "belief" and "fact."
(up)
In the discussion of deeply held, emotionally-loaded beliefs, a certain amount of heated argument will occur, even occasional "flaming." It is, however, not to be encouraged, as it inhibits the process of discussion both in the thread in question and elsewhere. Try to handle problems in a mature fashion (see Rule 2).
The best advice is to count to ten. Sleep on your response. Run your reply past one or two of the "old timers" to get their input.
If you absolutely must be a flaming jerk in public, don't be surprised when you receive other flames in response, including from people who hadn't previously spoken up.
Should a discussion get too heated, take it off-list, into private e-mail. If it seems like it would be pointless to take the discussion off-list, ask yourself if you are arguing in order to defend your position, or arguing to look good in front of others.
Or just end the discussion. Agree to disagree. Walking away from an argument doesn't have to mean you cave in to the other's opinion, only that you don't find the discussion to be profitable any longer.
If you feel something is egregiously counter to the rules and the spirit of the List, please contact the List Management, preferably off-list. Whiny "Mommy, Joey called me a boogerhead!" types of complaints are not likely to be looked upon favorably, though, since it is assumed that participants here possess a modicum of skin thickness, and the LMs are not kindergarten teachers.
If you are a third party and observe a problem occuring between other people, stay out of it unless there is a wildly compelling reason why you must speak up. Often the intrusion of additional people into a brouhaha simply raises the temperature that much further.
(up)
Their job is to assist OGLO in the day-to-day operations of the List: helping bewildered users, monitoring system problems (to alert OGLO), and acting as referees (not hall monitors or mob enforcers or babysitters) in case of serious problems. They've been chosen for this function by OGLO because they've shown commitment to the community here -- and because they were willing to do it when asked. Any complaints about the job they do should be referred to the List Owner. They "work" for him.
The List Managers, by the way, do not sit in a special command bunker outside of Washington, DC, pulling down seven-figure salaries (and all the Jolt and Doritos they can eat) to monitor the List in 12-hour shifts, with a hotline to OGLO in case of trouble. On the contrary, they (along with the List Owner) are all (unpaid!) volunteers, fitting LM duties in amidst such other trivia as their jobs, their schooling, and their families and friends. Usually, at least during the week and during daylight hours, one or more of them is around. But if you shout and nobody jumps to attention, don't assume you are being ignored. Hang in there, and someone will get back to you.
Many of the List Managers are frequent participants on the List. As such, they hope to be treated the same as any other List Subscriber, not as potentates who will smite anyone who isn't a Yes-man.
The List Management takes its job seriously. Though many develop friendships and relationships with other list members, they take their responsibilities seriously enough to try and deal with disputes fairly, impartially, and objectively. Polite feedback (off-List) is always welcome.
(up)
BELIEF-L can be a high-volume list. At one point, OGLO had to put limits on the posting quantities, to block it at 250 messages per day. Though things have slowed down a bit since those heady days, when folks get their rhetorical juices flowing, dozens of messages can fly by quickly. You are under no obligation to read everything that comes your way, of course, but it can still be a daunting sight, especially on a Monday morning.
If dealing with so many individual messages is a problem for you, you can subscribe in DIGEST form, which bundles a number of posts into a single message (the overall volume of data is the same, but in fewer, larger chunks). You can also go NOMAIL if you will be gone for more than a few days. See Section 4.8 for more info.
(up)
There have been a number of attempts to construct such a creature, but thanks
to the fluctuating and transient nature of the List population, as well as due
to resistance on the part of some members, it has been very difficult to manage.
However, see the information for the BELIEF-L Web Page, below.
(up)
OGLO once created a home page for BELIEF-L. It's still extant at:
Aside from a copy of this FAQ, it also contains some information about some of the posters (those who have chosen to provide same). Note that the page is not, ah, terribly up-to-date. (A new one is in the works; if you'd like to volunteer, contact him.)
(up)
During the Summer of 1993, a list member to be known only as KFL discovered, while slightly bored, that "BELIEF-L is Elf-Bile spelled sideways." He mentioned it, and against the better judgment of the more staid list members, the nickname caught on. Other anagrams have been suggested, but only Elf-Bile has prospered.
In the summers of 1995 thru '97, an "ElfBileCon" (often rendered "EBC") was held, a face-to-face gathering of those list members who could make it. While it's proven difficult to actually pull such a meeting together again, smaller-scale meetings are not uncommon, if folks are interested.
(up)
Douglas Adams said it was "42." A number of others on the List have come up with different answers (or no answer at all). Life, the Universe, and Everything has so far failed to make Its opinion known, though we keep waiting for It to subscribe.
(up)
Because, rumors to the contrary aside, the Internet was not designed to relay things in an orderly, hierarchical fashion. It was designed to make sure that communications would still run after a nuclear attack. Thus, messages get routed by an ever-shifting dynamic evaluation, router by router, of what is the fastest way right at that moment. Which, if you've ever used that tactic to fight your way through rush hour, is a good way to end up, occasionally, in a blind alley. Which does occasionally happen to some messages winging their way from destinyinternet.com to you.
One thing this means is that you should be wary of jumping on top of someone who is only being quoted in a response you got. Not knowing the full text of what was originally posted, you might be jumping to conclusions about what the original poster said.
On a related note, it's often helpful to read through as much of a thread (common subject line) as you have received before replying. This can help avoid both misunderstanding (leaping on something that was clarified in a later post) and duplication of effort (making a point that was already made by someone).
(up)
If you want tick people off and show what a jerk you are, try the following:
Any or all of these tactics will be sure to cheese people off. Used continuously, they may even cheese off the List Management, in which case you will soon not have to worry about all the e-mail traffic BELIEF-L causes on your server.
(up)
Because we're so darned long-winded, that's why. And because pretty much every section here has been driven by some question, or occurence on the List. It would be nice if just the Rules could be listed, but some folks need the further explanation.
(up)
This section covers some of the mechanics of communicating to BELIEF-L.
The basic guidelines are to quote in your reply previous text in a thread such that:
In many cases, your mail software will automatically include all the text from the message you are replying to. Edit this down to include only what is relevant to your reply, within those guildelines. This is important so as to give a reader of your post enough context to understand what you are saying (since some readers may come into the middle of a discussion, or enough time may have elapsed to render a response meaningless without the original).
In traditional "Internet culture" a symbol (most often >, varying with the author or software) before a line indicates that following text is being quoted from a previous author. This is handled automatically by many mail programs. If there are quotes from several predecessor notes, there may be several ">" characters stacked in front of each other.
Extensive quoting annoys, wastes bandwidth, and damages the readability of your post. It also costs money for those list members who pay for their mail on a line-by-line basis.
Netiquette says that quoting a long post followed with a mere "I agree" or "Well said" is to be avoided. If you are quoting more than you're writing, that should warn you to take another look. If you only want to say "I agree," contact the poster by private e-mail.
If you are involved in a long discussion where material is quoted and re-quoted, as a rule of thumb it should rarely be necessary to quote more than two layers deep. If possible, only one layer deep (i.e., quoting what the person before you said) is preferable.
Clearly identify the persons being quoted.If your mailer cannot do this automatically, putting something like "<Joe-Bob>" above the first quoted paragraph of Joe-Bob's is usually adequate. You will see both the value of citation and various techniques if you read the List for a few days.
Paraphrasing, as an alternative to quoting, has the advantage of saving space, but the serious disadvantage of possibly distorting what someone said with what you think they said. As a rule of thumb, paraphrasing is best used with quotes, not in place of them.
It is standard politeness, not to mention good rhetoric, to not quote someone out of context, such that the meaning is changed. Trust that doing so will draw the original poster's wrath down on you, at the very least.
(up)
A great variety of computer hardware and software is involved in the processing, distribution and reading of BELIEF-L articles by folks in various companies, schools, states and nations. Don't assume that everyone is using what you use, or is running the latest versions of stuff, or even has access to HTML and Rich Text Formats.
The less formatting, the better. Mailers that let you use bold, italics, multiple fonts, bullets, etc., will lose a lot in the translation to the Net. Folks who have different or more primative mailers will either have the formatting stripped off, or, worse, have it show up in an attachment on every post, or as raw formatting codes in the middle of the post itself.
Thus, if your mailer has a "Rich Text Format," "HTML Format," or "MIME Encoding," e.g., Microsoft Outlook, be sure to turn it off on mail sent to the List. Use Plain Text formats.
Please keep original text to line lengths under 75 characters. Failure to do so may mean your post gets formatted as alternating 75-character lines and X-character lines (a.k.a., "comb posts"). If at all possible, do not use full-justified text; ragged-right (like this document) is easier to read, especially after the Net gets ahold of it.
(up)
Just as written communication uses such things as underscoring, italics and boldface for emphasis, the Internet has developed its own tools for the purpose. Since Plain Text is still the standard for e-mail communication, the method of indicating emphasis is bracketing the text in a non-alphanumeric character, e.g., in *asterisks*, /slashes/, -hyphens-, or _underscores_. (The latter is often used to indicate book titles, e.g., _Gone with the Wind_).
Using ALL CAPITAL LETTERS is another method. However, posting an entire note in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS is considered "yelling" and the sign of a neophyte poster.
Just as a book where every other line has italics in it loses the impact of such emphasis, overuse of these tools also renders them less effective.
(up)
Be wary of how you express sarcasm, cynicism and humor. Studies have shown that it is difficult to communicate complex emotions in e-mail. The networking community has thus developed text aids ("emoticons") to clarify things, e.g.,
If you aren't certain whether your witty remarks will actually be recognized as wit, then chances are they won't by somebody. It is suggested that you consider simply being more direct, or else sparingly use emoticons where necessary. Remember that there are some people who don't know about emoticons.
Also remember that some on BELIEF-L firmly believe that emoticons are a crutch, and interfere with communication. They point out that people have written letters, memos, books, etc. for centuries without resort to such "pictures" to convey the emotional intent of the writer.
Regardless, expect that some of the witticisms you throw out, with or without emoticons, will be misinterpreted. That implies as well that, before you assume that the person you are reading is some sort of jerk because of the comment just made, ask yourself if it might have been intended as a joke, albeit one not well-communicated.
Emoticons don't necessarily excuse someone from being obnoxious, any more than, in Real Life, grinning as you insult someone makes it less insulting.
(up)
Since English is still struggling with the issue of gender-specific language, it shouldn't be surprising that the question crops up here occasionally. The best advice is to be courteous and clear about what you mean. If there is a chance that what you are writing might be mistaken as applying to only (or all) males when you use "he" as a pronoun, make note that it can apply to females as well, or change the phrasing to leave out the pronoun. This is not just politeness, but a matter of clarity.
If you think this is all pedantic nonsense, you are free to simply use "he" in all cases. But expect that some folks will think you are referring only to men, and will criticize your arguments accordingly.
(up)
The Internet has developed a number of acronyms to save on typing. Some of the most common on BELIEF-L are:
BTW: By The Way
FWIW: For What It's Worth
FYI: For Your Information
IIRC: If I Remember Correctly
IME: In My Experience
IMHO: In My Humble Opinion (and other variations)
IMO: In My Opinion
LOL: Laughing Out Loud
OGLO: O Glorious List Owner, the title for the List Owner, David O'Donnell.
OTOH: On The Other Hand
ROTFL: Rolling On The Floor Laughing
ROTFLWMCOOMN: Rolling On The Floor Laughing With Milk Coming Out Of My Nose (and other variations).
YMMV: Your Mileage May Vary (i.e., this is what works for me, not necessarily for anyone else)
(up)
It is generally considered good form to sign your posts. Though most folks get "headers" with their mail that show who posted it, not everyone does (due to their mail or gateway software).
Many mail systems let you automatically insert "signature" or "sig" lines at the bottom of your mail. These often include your name, your e-mail address, and often a bon mot to engender a chuckle from your correspondents. General netiquette rules say that sig lines shouldn't be longer than four lines. Longer than that is not only an annoyance for those who pay for mail by the line, but wears very thin after more than one reading.
Note that you do not have to use your real name, but it's usually a good idea to let folks know if you are using a pseudonym, and why. You'd be amazed how deeply some people can (and will) dig to identify unknown posters. Given that a level of trust is necessary on BELIEF-L in order to share beliefs, that's not a surprising reaction.
Note that some people will be able to read your address, and know who is posting, even if you don't sign your post. So if you are inclined to drop in from nowhere with an obnoxious post, be warned it won't be anonymous.
(up)
Up until relatively recently, BELIEF-L ran on Revised LISTSERV®, and so most commands to set your various optoins could only be done on-line. The new list serving software, Mailman, is much more Web-based, and so this section has changed quite a bit.
| Send messages to the list | belief-l@destinyinternet.com |
| Contact the List Management | belief-l-admin@destinyinternet.com, or see Section 1 |
| Get e-mail-based help | belief-l-request@destinyinternet.com, put the word help in the subject line or as a message line. |
| Get a copy of the FAQ | belief-l-faq@fates.org (no subject or text necessary) |
The easiest way to set options is to go to the web page:
Here you can:
Note that your password is critical in the above. You get a copy of your password when you first subscribe, and you can use the options screens above to change it to something you can remember. You can also use the above page to get a copy of your password sent to you, and a copy will be sent to you on a monthly basis by the server at any rate.
This setup is easier than using the e-mail based commands (though the latter may be necessary if you do not have access to a browser). If you do need to set options via e-mail, the help file listed above is useful. It shows you how to perform all the above functions via e-mail.
If you go on vacation or are away from the List for more than a few days, set your subscription to NOMAIL.
Be aware that the list server knows you only by your mail ID, e.g., joe.blow@acme.com. If your mail ID changes, the list server will no longer recognize commands from you, even if you are still receiving posts from the system (e.g., if your sysops set up an alias for incoming mail). Contact a List Manager if this becomes a problem.
Mail systems sometimes get changed so that users get a different subdomain (e.g., john@acme.com is suddenly john@xyz.acme.com). This can cause problems because, though outgoing mail to the old address will still get delivered, the list server will not recognize posts or commands coming from the new address. Contact the List Management if this becomes a problem.
Due to the nature of the Internet, even after commands or configurations are changed, there may already be mail "in the pipeline" that continues to arrive. You may want to wait up to a full day before assuming that something has gone wrong with the command.
(up)
Get a real ISP. The List, at http://www.thelist.com/, is a good place to start.
No, but seriously, since BELIEF-L used to be hosted on AOL, there were ways to access it via AOL Newsgroups. Now there aren't, but we're too lazy to renumber the FAQ sections.
One unfortunate side effect of using America Online is that most members receive a lot of junk e-mail when they participate in AOL 'community' fora. You're fairly safe using BELIEF-L in that the list of subscribers is only available to the List Management, but if you're like most AOL members you get so much junk mail it's hard to tell the good from the bad. You might want to consider creating a separate, private, screen name for BELIEF-L and other "good" mail. AOL management don't have a real solution to the junk mail their customers receive but they offer the idea of a separate screen name as a work-around.
(up)
Since BELIEF-L does interface with the Real World, the following items need to be noted.
Read the copyright statement at the end of this FAQ. It means that if you get caught reproducing things said here (e.g., cross-posting to another group) without permission, the original author has the right to sue the snot out of you. Some people take their privacy pretty seriously, though in general most folks are pretty cooperative if asked first. If nothing else, it's the polite thing to do.
As far as cross-posting stuff into BELIEF-L, it's best to be conservative. If there is a news group or web page or list that you think would be of interest to one or more folks here, give the addresses and suggest they look for it themselves, or offer to send stuff to individuals by private e-mail.
(up)
The above section is all well and good. But ...
Because of the nature of the Internet, and electronic communication in general, do not at any time assume that materials sent to BELIEF-L will be private. Anyone, from your own sysop to folks at intermediate sites, can (with varying degrees of difficulty) intercept copies of what you are sending by e-mail. Further, there's nothing stopping your boss, your ex-spouse, your current spouse, your soon-to-be-ex-spouse, or anyone else from signing onto this list and reading what you write, nor anything (physically) stopping anyone from forwarding your comments from here to any of those folk.
Bear in mind that the law (both as legislated and as adjudicated) is still fuzzy on how to treat electronic communications and the Internet. Libel and slander laws probably apply here, and, if some technophobes have their way, indecency laws will, too.
The best rule of thumb: if you would be embarrassed to see what you wrote published in the newspaper, you might want to think twice about writing it here. As much as we have a sense here of being a family, the walls do resemble glass at times, and even the best families have fallings-out.
Occasionally, some folks here post their phone numbers or snail-mail addresses. Concerns have been expressed by some list members that the lack of security and the anonymous nature of electronic communications could make such actions dangerous.
Note that, this anonymous nature notwithstanding, it is expected that people subscribing to this list are doing so of their own free will and primarily to engage in (or at a minimum observe) the discussions of personal ideologies which occur here. Any use of this List as a mandatory class or other assignment is against List Policy without the express permission of the List Owner or List Management. Any person who is signed up to the List because they are required or compelled to is asked to contact the List Management immediately.
Any person who is here for purposes other than the free discussion of personal ideologies (e.g., research for a paper) is asked to identify him/herself to the List as a whole, in the interest of informed consent.
(up)
This document represents an attempt to provide a guide to BELIEF-L. The List Management is more than willing to consider additions, changes and deletions. If you have any questions, comments, concerns or complaints, feel free to contact the List Owner or his assistants. The List Owner retains the right to alter the nature of the List at any time, as well as any of this document. BELIEF-L is not a democracy, though the Owner will always listen to reasoned refutations of policy (and may even adjust policy because of them).
(up)
BELIEF-L ("the List") exists as a value-added electronic content carrier in the sense that it is organized as an extended, multiple-subject electronic magazine/chat forum/symposium. The materials posted to BELIEF-L are largely personal opinion and observation and are implicitly copyright by the posters. (Exceptions occur when members cross-post from other areas or post material which is not original.)
Once a message ("article") has been posted to the List, it becomes the group property of that assemblage of individuals who are connected to the List in either an active state ("MAIL"), inactive subscription state ("NOMAIL") or receive the List via a local redistribution facility (such as USENET news). Unless specifically stated by an author, the contents of an article which has been posted to the List are covered by a copyright based on the List membership; all List members may use the contents of articles posted to the List as the basis for or inclusion in their own articles.
Fair usage of the contents of BELIEF-L would include:
For purposes not mentioned above, permission to use the contents of the List must be obtained from a minimum of the original List Owner (David B. O'Donnell) and at most the other List Management staff (see Section 1 at the top of this document). Inclusion of the original author(s) would show a sincere interest in fair usage, as well.
Any other usage, including the copying of messages, attributed or not, into other mailing lists, paper-based or electronic publications (including Web pages), public or not, constitutes unfair usage and is prohibited. Discussions of individual instances should be carried out over e-mail with the List management.
THE CONTENTS OF THIS DOCUMENT ARE COPYRIGHT (C) 1989-2000 BY DAVID B. O'DONNELL. THE CONTENTS OF THE BELIEF-L LIST ("THE LIST") ARE COPYRIGHTED BY THE INDIVIDUAL AUTHORS AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT, AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE ORIGINAL AUTHORS OR THE LIST MANAGEMENT. THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED BY THE SUBSCRIBER BASE OF THE LIST ARE THE PROPERTY OF THE INDIVIDUALS AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OPINIONS OF THE LIST MANAGEMENT OR ANY OTHER INTERNET/BITNET ORGANIZATION UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED OTHERWISE. THE LIST MANAGEMENT DISCLAIMS ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CONTENTS OF THE LIST. VOID WHERE PROHIBITED BY LAW. MAY CONTAIN TOPICS OR EXPRESSIONS WHICH ARE DISTASTEFUL OR UNSUITABLE FOR MINORS. READ AND SUBSCRIBE AT YOUR OWN RISK. NO MODELS UNDER EIGHTEEN YEARS OF AGE WERE USED. NO ANIMALS WERE HARMED IN THE PRODUCTION OF THIS LIST. LIST MANAGEMENT, HOST SITE AND THE CONTENTS OF THIS DOCUMENT ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME.
(up)